steroids

[mmeloon]

Conclusion:
Do not take steroids!

joiv, you are welcome to your opinion -- and, for what it's worth, I share that opinion -- however, jaysheldon has simply asked "would [anabolic] steroids help my martial arts training?" He's not asking -- and dragon and I are not debating -- the question "Anabolic steroids: smart life choice?" The first question is one of fact. The second question is one of personal opinion. As dragon writes above, we're "just trying to be objective as possible" so that jaysheldon can make his own choice regarding whether the benefits outweigh the risks. That's for him to decide, not us.

-Mark

[joiv]

I see. Then please interpret "Do not take steroids!" as "The benefits do not outweigh the risks". Intake of hormones have a tendency to affect the whole system - often in ways not intended.

When it comes to the question in matter: "Would [anabolic] steroids help my martial arts training?", the answer should be the same as with (as you formulated it) "Anabolic steroids: smart life choice?" (because that's what it is - a life choice). Steroids render permanent changes that affect the athlete's life. It would just be plain stupid only to consider the pro&contras related to the training alone (as some side effects are serious, but don't impair training). (I'm not saying that applies to you - I'm just defending my point of view). Agression, severe acne, gynecomastia and testicular atrophy for instance do not necesserily prevent you from becoming a good martial artist, but should be taken in consideration as well.

So to why steroids won't help your martial arts training:
+ Anabolic steroids will also increase the susceptibility for tendon strains and injuries (muscle strength and size increase at a far greater rate than tendon and connective tissue strength)
+ You will experience disproportionate development of the torso
+ Increased bruising, particularly with minor injuries (oral steroids have a toxic effect on the liver which causes a decrease in production of necessary blood clotting factors)
+ Spontaneous nose bleeds (epistaxis) as a result of hypertension
+ Alterations in cognitive processes and content
+ Violent mood swings including increased agressiveness, euphoria, irritability, depression and anxiety

(Source: National Library of Medicine - http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/picrender. ... obtype=pdf)

[joiv]

I'm just saying that the answer is quite obvious...

[joiv]

One big pro though (unless it isn't already too big): It's the only way to increase your manhood.

[mmeloon]

I see. Then please interpret "Do not take steroids!" as "The benefits do not outweigh the risks". Intake of hormones have a tendency to affect the whole system - often in ways not intended.

joiv, my point was simply that statements such as "Do not take steroids!" or "The benefits do not outweigh the risks." are value-judgements. I don't think we should be in the business of making value-judgements for other people. As someone who won't even take creatine, I'm certainly not going to be in favor of steroids. But if someone asks me "Will this help my training?" I feel compelled to give them the facts and let them determine whether the benefits outweigh the risks for themselves. Not everyone has the same set of values.

When it comes to the question in matter: "Would [anabolic] steroids help my martial arts training?", the answer should be the same as with (as you formulated it) "Anabolic steroids: smart life choice?" (because that's what it is - a life choice). Steroids render permanent changes that affect the athlete's life. It would just be plain stupid only to consider the pro&contras related to the training alone (as some side effects are serious, but don't impair training). (I'm not saying that applies to you - I'm just defending my point of view). Agression, severe acne, gynecomastia and testicular atrophy for instance do not necesserily prevent you from becoming a good martial artist, but should be taken in consideration as well.

I agree that one should not consider pros/cons of training alone, but again that's something that jaysheldon has to do for himself.

So to why steroids won't help your martial arts training:
+ Anabolic steroids will also increase the susceptibility for tendon strains and injuries (muscle strength and size increase at a far greater rate than tendon and connective tissue strength)
+ You will experience disproportionate development of the torso
+ Increased bruising, particularly with minor injuries (oral steroids have a toxic effect on the liver which causes a decrease in production of necessary blood clotting factors)
+ Spontaneous nose bleeds (epistaxis) as a result of hypertension
+ Alterations in cognitive processes and content
+ Violent mood swings including increased agressiveness, euphoria, irritability, depression and anxiety

(Source: National Library of Medicine - http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/picrender. ... obtype=pdf)

I think these are excellent examples of the type of information that I suspect jaysheldon is looking for. I'm especially pleased at the first item in your list, since that's what I was talking about in my original message in this thread and I was frustrated that I couldn't find a citation. Excellent work (although I couldn't get the link to work).

I'm not sure I'm explaining myself any better in this message than the last. Hopefully, jaysheldon has the information he needs to make the decision.

-Mark

[joiv]

(sorry about the link, seems like you have to click your way in through every step from pubmed.com... )

Off topic: Ordered the book. *excited*

(Never mind the signature)

[Maxim]

steroids WILL help ANY performance athlete, from marathon runner to weightlifter.

[BOy2K]

steroids WILL help ANY performance athlete, from marathon runner to weightlifter.

...to die younger from heart related problems

[mmeloon]

steroids WILL help ANY performance athlete, from marathon runner to weightlifter.

I think that is not at all clear. What is clear is that anabolic steroids can help athletes in sports that demand a very high level of strength and low bodyfat. Bodybuilding is a natural example. For other sports where coordination, endurance, flexibility, agility, and so on play a large role, it is not at all clear to me that anabolic steroids will produce a measurable improvement in overall performance. Even if I were to conceed that any athlete that takes anabolic steroids will recover more quickly from workouts and build more strength, whether that results in a lower golf score, a higher synchronized swimming score, or a faster time in the marathon is not clear to me.

Please refer to joiv's post above where he indicates "Anabolic steroids will also increase the susceptibility for tendon strains and injuries (muscle strength and size increase at a far greater rate than tendon and connective tissue strength)." This is a good reason to take a hard look at the cost/benefit ratio of anabolic steroids. If you get injured all the time, that will negate the ability of steroids to allow you to work out harder and longer right there.

-Mark

[johndela1]

I'd say in the short term they will help, but you will lose your gains as quick as you got them when you stop. If your don't value your health and need quick short term gains, they would be of potential use.

I've always looked at my training as a way to maintain my health, so steriod use would not help me with my goal.


---
John d
http://jjdev.com - researching for optimal health

[tyciol]

I wouldn't pursue steroids unless I was a very advanced biochemist (which I plan to be) so I could constantly monitor my saliva, blood and urine and other health indicators and properly measure dosage and needs. A big problem with relying on steroids is they can be used in place of good training and eating and mental restructuring. People tend to overdose, or get them from questionable sources (nothing illegal is ever properly tested for safety).

Another thing is you can take too much of them, which I think some people do, causing injuries or organ malfunction. It is also somewhat of a dependance in that if you stop takingthem, your results will go away in a bit. Who wants to pay money for it?

Addressing root problems in health that might push your endocrinology to be more anabolic are probably better in steroids. Some people (usually older or with genetic conditions) may need supplements due to defects which are acceptable and can be perscribed by doctors. These doctors use the natural forms and not artificial constructs made to bypass laws which often have unwanted side effects due to their untested and strange nature.

[Sammiek]

Steroids are a personal choice. But before involving yourself into that world, you should reconsider why it is banned in the first place and why there are so many debates about whether or not to use it.

Consider the risks before you delve into this personally. As for martial arts, it has always been a kind of 'natural' art - without the need for medicines and such. Besides, unless you are running for state championship or something, the risk involved is far greater than the results achieved.

Good Luck!

Sammie K.
"Gymnastikball"
http://www.fitstore.de

[adisonpol]

Steroids side effects

While most people who use anabolic steroids to gain the advantage of increased muscle size and stamina for competitions, there are others who use them just to increase their muscles. The problem is there are many serious side effects caused by steroids that are dangerous and even lethal. Synthetic steroids side effects can be dangerous for not only men, but women and children too can suffer some serious side effects when they use steroids. Synthetic steroids are illegal in the United States because of their dangerous side effects.